This very important article, by Wayne Jacobsen, has been posted on the Re-Union site for some time. I thought it would be good to draw attention to it from this blog, as well.
Holding Their Feet To The Fire November 19, 2009
From: PTM WEEKLY UPDATE — NOVEMBER 16, 2009
(Also, be sure to check out the additional articles linked to within this article – DF)
Holding their feet to the fire
Q. The church I attend says if a person doesn’t accept Christ in this lifetime they will go to hell. I do not believe that of course. Where do they find that in the Bible? Far from being the good news of the gospel, this teaching scares people to death. My church teaches that even those from thousands of years past — who knew nothing of Christ and had no opportunity to accept him — will end up in hell. How can a just, merciful God punish people and hold them accountable for something they didn’t know or understand? I have a feeling this teaching is not correct. Wouldn’t Scripture clearly tell us if it were true?
A. This topic is one of the “hot” buttons within Christianity. Many believe that hell must be preached, that people’s feet must be held over the ever-burning coals of hell to motivate them to obey God. But the truth is that while there is no doubt that hell and heaven exist, the definitions and descriptions of heaven and hell of today’s religion tend to differ widely from those of the Bible.
Within Christendom the idea of hell was forever changed by Dante Alighieri’s description of the medieval concept of hell in his epic poem Divine Comedy (see my articles “An Open Letter to Dante,” “The Hotter the Better” and “Eternal Torture: Divine or Human Vengeance”). Many Christians, both professionals, pastors and teachers, as well as laity, take their clues from an outdated, outmoded, unscientific and decidedly un-Christ-like view of hell from the religious heritage of Dante that continues to this day.
Many religious folks believe that hell must be preached so that Christians will “keep in line.” But when one carefully considers what the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about, and what God’s grace actually means, and how it plays out in our lives, keeping people under religious control is not the desire of Jesus Christ. That might be effective for religion — but it is not real, authentic Christianity.
Hell is vigorously defended, and anyone who would differ is often labeled a libertine, permissive, a crank, a heretic, or all of the above. A careful examination of the Bible, of the nature of God and the nature of the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to mention God’s grace is often not the foundation of such heated exchanges — the real issue for religious legalism is the defense of its arsenal, the defense of its religious club that it can use to keep people in line.
Sadly, such manipulative teaching is not only unbiblical, it doesn’t work — people are waking up to the abuse and torture of Scripture that has been going on. So, yes, you are correct — the fiery sinners in the hands of any angry God stuff is more religious than it is Christian.
Having said that, do I believe in heaven and hell? Of course. Heaven is eternity spent in the presence of God, and hell is eternity spent apart from God. That’s it. That is not enough, obviously, for some within Christendom who feel they need fiery tirades and yelling matches to keep people from doing bad things. Keeping people from doing bad things is a noble and necessary goal, and we can all wish that more parents, teachers, pastors and others would do more to make this world a better place. But the end of keeping people in line does not justify the means of fear religion. There isn’t enough dogmatic and specific information in the Bible to help us define the exactness of hell — there is in Dante, but last time I checked, Dante is not one of the books of the Bible.
As to those billions of human beings who have lived and died without hearing of Christ — or those billions who have heard of Christ without understanding who he really is — and those billions who are enslaved and held captive by all sorts of religions and religious traditions — again, the Bible is not specific. We may only conclude from what the Bible does tell us about God, that these people are in his just, merciful and loving hands.
Who goes to hell (or heaven) — what the criteria is — how many people are or will be in hell and heaven — all of these are often religious devices. Many churches openly teach, while many others carefully but strongly suggest, that heaven will basically be confined to their denomination — and all other riff-raff will not make it. Many teach that hell is reserved for those who don’t see it their way — who don’t quite measure up. But God says that salvation is by grace, and that he alone determines how and when the riches of his grace are given.
Editor’s note: no feet were harmed in the creation of this photo.
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A Few Quotes November 15, 2009
– Here are just a few quotes from “The Shack.” If you haven’t read this book, don’t listen to the nay-sayers.
This book is, with no question in my mind, a God-thing. –
Buy it HERE. -
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“Does that mean,” asked Mack, “that all roads will lead to you?” “Not at all,” smiled Jesus…”Most roads don’t lead anywhere. What it does mean is that I will travel any road to find you.”"
“All I want from you is to trust me with what little you can, and grow in loving people around you with the same love I share with you. It’s not your job to change them, or to convince them. You are free to love without an agenda.”
“So no, I’m not too big on religion…and not very fond of politics or economics either…And why should I be? They are the man-created trinity of terrors that ravages the earth and deceives those I care about. What mental turmoil and anxiety does any human face that is not related to one of those three?”
“Trust is the fruit of a relationship in which you know you are loved.”
“Just because I work incredible good out of unspeakable tragedies doesn’t mean I orchestrate the tragedies. Don’t ever assume that my using something means I caused it or that I need it to accomplish my purposes. That will only lead you to false notions about me. Grace doesn’t depend on suffering to exist, but where there is suffering you will find grace in many facets and colors.”
In seminary [Mack] had been taught that God had completely stopped any overt communication with moderns, preferring to have them only listen to and follow sacred Scripture, properly interpreted, of course. God’s voice had been reduced to paper, and even that paper had to be moderated and deciphered by the proper authorities and intellects. It seemed that direct communication with God was something exclusively for the ancients and uncivilized, while educated Westerners’ access to God was mediated and controlled by the intelligentsia. Nobody wanted God in a box, just in a book.
“”Sometimes honesty can be incredibly messy”"
“I don’t need to punish people for sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring you from the inside. It’s not my purpose to punish it; it’s my joy to cure it.”
“We are not in a chain of command. We are a circle of relationship.”
“Authority, as you usually think of it, is merely the excuse the strong use to make others conform to what they want.”
“Relationships are never about power, and one way to avoid the will to power is to choose to limit oneself- to serve.”
Spiritual Adultery November 13, 2009
This deals with the relationship or lack of relationship believers have with the law. For many Christians, the idea that in Christ, they are totally free from a system of rules is a scary thought and they often try to relate to Jesus in the same way as they related to the law or in some cases leave Jesus and return to the law. This is “spiritual adultery.”
Here are some of the common methods that Christians use to try to overcome sins.
Tell others of your commitment to overcome.
Pray and promise.
Read “Christian self-help” books.
Memorize and quote Scripture.
Real victory over sin is a gift that only comes from Christ, fleshly efforts to overcome never bring success.
1 Corinthians 15:57 says, But we thank God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
What is spiritual adultery? What relationship does the believer have to rules?
Romans 7:1-5 Brothers and sisters, all of you understand the law of Moses. So surely you know that the law rules over people only while they are alive. For example, a woman must stay married to her husband as long as he is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from the law of marriage. But if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, the law says she is guilty of adultery. But if her husband dies, she is free from the law of marriage. Then if she marries another man, she is not guilty of adultery. In the same way, my brothers and sisters, your old selves died, and you became free from the law through the body of Christ. This happened so that you might belong to someone else—the One who was raised from the dead—and so that we might be used in service to God. In the past, we were ruled by our sinful selves. The law made us want to do sinful things that controlled our bodies, so the things we did were bringing us death.
How do we get out of marriage to Mr. Law? We had to die!
All other sins are preceded by spiritual adultery!
Galatians 5:4 If you try to be made right with God through the law, your life with Christ is over—you have left God’s grace.
The believer has no relationship with religious rules…our only relationship is with Jesus Christ!
Spiritual adultery happens when we go back to our first spouse (law) to get our needs met instead of staying with our New Spouse (Jesus/Grace) for our happiness. We become distrustful of Jesus and His ability to meet all our needs. We want to make sure and “do it ourselves.” The most difficult thing for us to do is completely depend on Jesus! When we return to our former spouse (rules), we are being unfaithful to Jesus.
What does spiritual adultery look like?
Placing confidence in behavior…especially “good” behavior.
Placing confidence in doctrinal beliefs and knowledge of spiritual matters.
Trusting anything or anybody besides Jesus for our acceptance before God!
How can it be a sin when a Christian does a good thing?
Hebrews 11:6 Without faith no one can please God… Doing “good things” in our own power, using our personal efforts and acting independently of God is just as wrong as doing “bad things.”
In both cases, the real issue is independence from God…not placing our faith in His provision. 1Thessalonians 5:24 says …He will do it.
The difference between the law tree and the life tree:
The law tree offers knowledge about what is right and wrong, but gives no life. The life tree is Jesus Christ who tells us what is right and wrong and gives not only eternal life, but abundant life here and now.
When we try to get life from the Law Tree, our focus is on behavior, but when we go to the Life Tree, our focus is on God who alone can give us life!
Do Christians need the law?
1 Timothy 1:8-10 But we know that the law is good if someone uses it lawfully. We also know that the law is not made for good people but for those who are against the law and for those who refuse to follow it. It is for people who are against God.
For whom is the law given? People like the ones described in the above Scripture.
If we as believers don’t focus on religious laws, what will govern our behavior?
Jeremiah 31:33-34 “This is the agreement I will make with the people of Israel at that time,” says the Lord: “I will put my teachings in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. People will no longer have to teach their neighbors and relatives to know the Lord, because all people will know me, from the least to the most important,” says the Lord. “I will forgive them for the wicked things they did, and I will not remember their sins anymore.”
Christians are governed by relationship, not rules! The indwelling Christ will lead and guide. The law defines sin as a violation of the rules, grace defines sin as a violation of the relationship.
Why do Christians try to build their lifestyle around a set of rules?
It seems natural…just the way life works best…that’s the way the rest of life is governed. A set of rules makes it possible for the ones that are strong to out-perform the ones that aren’t. I used to feel quite superior over Sabbath observance and abstaining from certain foods and alcohol.
Colossians 2:20-23 Since you died with Christ and were made free from the ruling spirits of the world, why do you act as if you still belong to this world by following rules like these: “Don’t eat this,” “Don’t taste that,” “Don’t even touch that thing”? These rules refer to earthly things that are gone as soon as they are used. They are only man-made commands and teachings. They seem to be wise, but they are only part of a man-made religion. They make people pretend not to be proud and make them punish their bodies, but they do not really control the evil desires of the sinful self.
–Steve McVey
Gay Believers November 13, 2009
The term “gay believers” freaks out a lot of fundamentalists. For me, to acknowledge there are gay believers is no harder than to acknowledge there are Catholic believers, or Methodist believers, or Seventh Day Adventist believers, or believers who smoke or eat red meat, or believe in the rapture. Acknowledging that someone is a Christian does not mean I necessarily agree with all their beliefs. It simply means that God accepts us where we are. After that, we all, whoever we are, start a journey of change. What change, and what direction that change takes, is up to God.
Everything Is Spiritual November 13, 2009
“In the Hebrew language, there is no word for “spiritual.” If you would have said to Jesus, “Jesus, how is your spiritual life?” He would have said “What?” To label part of your life as “spiritual” and part as “not spiritual” is foreign to the world of scripture, and to the worldview of Jesus.”
- Rob Bell
This stuff is absolutly amazing!
You won’t want to miss any of the 8 videos in this presentation.
Watch it HERE ON YOUTUBE.
or you can buy it HERE AT LIFEWALK STORE.
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Some reviews:
Michael J. Cauller says:
Who would have thought that a lecture on Creation stories and Quantum Physics would be so instrumental in conveying the truth of a holistic perspective of spirituality? I’d say that Nooma is like a piece of candy and this is like a steak dinner. Brilliant stuff. Excellent revelation as one would expect.
Christopher Bernard says:
Rob Bell has received a great deal of criticism in his career for a variety of reasons. Some might have some merit, but most come out a desire for him to be something he is not. He is not a world class Biblical Scholar; he is not the greatest theological mind; he is not a person that will champion conservative ideologies, nor liberal. If you desire any of these things from this man, do not buy his work for you will be disappointed.
But if you are looking for a thoughtful person engaging with faith, culture, and life, then you might have found someone that will really speak to you in a refreshing confession of Christian faith.
Rob Bell is a pastor with a heart for humanity. He is a person that desires to unite, rather than divide. He is a person who recognizes the burden of our society and addresses them in faithful ways and “Everything Is Spiritual” is a wonderful testimony of God at work within Humanity.
I was blessed to watch this. And I trust that those who have ears to hear will come away from this experience moved in profound ways.
Watch it HERE ON YOUTUBE.
or you can buy it HERE AT LIFEWALK STORE.
Here’s John Sexton’s review of live presentation of “Everything Is Spiritual” at The Glass House:
The Glass House is a small concert venue in a little artists’ colony section of downtown Pomona. It’s surrounded by vintage clothing boutiques and used record stores. Usually it’s host to punk bands, but on this Wednesday night a somewhat different crowd had turned out to see a young pastor from Michigan named Rob Bell.
Our Ticketmaster tickets ($10) read “Door: 7PM Show: 8PM.” My two friends and I arrived a bit after seven and found the place already packed. Nearly 350 people sat on folding chairs facing a corner stage. The stage was black except for a huge whiteboard about four feet tall running the length of the stage, perhaps 16 feet. A few white lights were shining on it, making it appear to glow slightly.
As 8PM approached someone came on stage to ask us to turn off our cell phones and to let us know that tonight’s performance was being filmed. A few minutes later the mood music that had been playing in the background became louder, adding to the concert-like atmosphere of the show. Finally, Rob Bell stepped on stage dressed all in black. He uncapped his marker dramatically and we were off…
He began with a ten minute discussion of Genesis chapter one, treating it as Hebrew poetry. He paused once to emphasize his underlying principle of interpretation, i.e. “the Bible is not a science text book.” If there were young earth creationists in the room, they decided not to throw vegetables at that moment.
At one point, he pantomimed Adam naming the animals God brought before him. When Adam named one “cat” God’s reaction was “Hey, I didn’t make that.” It was one of the lighter moments in the message. Rob then made this aside: “Someone out there with a blog, please don’t write that I hate cats. There’ll be demonstrators at the next show.” So while it was extremely tempting to title this post “Rob Bell Hates Cats”, I resisted.
The second and longest part of Rob’s talk was, in fact, about science. From quarks and strings to the vast universe itself, he covered an enormous amount of ground. I have a background in this material, so I listened with an awareness not only of where he was going, but also where he might have gone. The impression I had was of watching some agile person cross a river by leaping from stone to stone. At times he would slow his progress to draw out a tricky point, such as quantum entanglement or the stellar habitable zone. At other times he would skip lightly over issues too complex to engage in an abbreviated way, such as the differing interpretations of quantum theory. But always it seemed to me he dealt accurately and fairly with the material. It was an outstanding 20-25 minute summary of modern physics. It was a setup for a point he would make later.
Next, he turned to the issue of perspective. Using Flatland characters, he discussed how God’s interaction with our world may be difficult to understand in everyday language. This is where the “emergent view” of all things theological came across most strongly. Is God Calvinist or Armenian? Rob suggests there may be a way for him to be both.
I recognize that answers like this will never satisfy those who’ve invested any energy in either of the alternatives. And I probably enjoy a good theological argument as much as the next person. Still, I found Bell’s appeal to lay down our theological arms quite winning. There are simply some issues where the Bible stands in tension with itself. Perhaps this too is inspired and should be respected. At times I get the sense that the seminary-denominational complex has an institutional investment in keeping the arguments going. In any case, this was probably my favorite section of the talk.
Having loaded his plate with literally “everything”, Rob now had the unenviable task of summing it up neatly. If his conclusion wasn’t fully successful it’s worth pointing out that few pastors would even have the courage to try.
And there was a theme that came through, a single thread on which all the beads of science and theology were strung. We live in a very big world and yet its one in which our perspective has the ability to shift our understanding of everything. Is the universe an accident or a work of design? The truth is it could be either. Is theology confusing because it’s imperfect or because our language is insufficient? Again, it could be either.
Is anything spiritual or is nothing? Rob suggests that as Christians we must choose everything. It’s this perspective that changes what we see. We move forward through life with the anticipation — the faith — that God is not absent, that he may indeed be hiding in plain sight.
I don’t know if Rob Bell has read Roy Clouser’s The Myth of Religious Neutrality, but he certainly seems to have adopted Clouser’s ideas on the religious control of theory-making. In any case, Rob’s presentation of it is a lot of fun. If there’s one person I’d like to have a chance to have a long talk with at some point, he has to be near the top of the list.
Watch it HERE ON YOUTUBE.
or you can buy it HERE AT LIFEWALK STORE.
Kingdom Of Heaven November 12, 2009
We hear “kingdom of heaven” and we think “kingdom of life after death.” But that’s the very opposite of what Jesus is talking about. Remember—he says repeatedly, the kingdom of God, the kingdom of heaven, has arrived! It’s near, here, at hand, among you! It’s not just about after you die; it’s about here, now, in this life!—Brian McLaren (New Kind of Christian, 107).
On Bible Inerrancy November 12, 2009
Some points made by Jim Denison:
The word “inerrancy” has been defined and qualified in too many different and highly technical ways to be of any theological use; therefore, we ought to prefer to speak of the “trustworthiness” or “authority” of the Bible.
The concept of inerrancy, since it is applied exclusively to the original Bible manuscripts, actually undermines the faith of believers in their own copies of the Bible.
Inerrancy is a recent doctrinal innovation not shared by those in Christian history whom we ought to emulate—that it is not among our theological “roots.”
Rather than the denial of inerrancy’s leading to other heresies, the affirmation of inerrancy leads to unwarranted divisiveness.
Inerrancy is a philosophical position not supported by the statements of the Bible itself.
The Bible actually is not inerrant; therefore, to apply the test of inerrancy to the Bible is to set the Bible up to fail at a test that it does not and would not apply to itself, and thereby to undermine one’s belief in the “trustworthiness” of the Bible.
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Nowhere in scripture does the bible refer to itself as “the word of God.”
The word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and his name is Jesus.
–df
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For more on this subject, go to Now_Read_This.
Little Tin Stove November 9, 2009
Ahh, childhood memories.
During our recent move, I found this little memento from my past, pictured to the left.
When we were children, my brother and I were baking mud pies is this little tin stove. Sounds innocent enough, right? The problem is, this culinary undertaking took place in my father’s corn crib.
The fire we so wisely built on the floor of a wooden structure, destroyed, of course, said containment system. Who would have seen that coming?!?!?
Just one of the many delightful playtime activities my brother and I engaged in.
We were so cute.
My Review of “Through Painted Deserts” November 6, 2009
This is my 3rd Donald Miller book. I must say, it’s my least favorite of the three. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying it’s bad. It’s actually quite good. I just liked the other two better.
In “Through Painted Deserts” Donald chronicles a road trip he took with a friend in a beat up VW van. The main destination was the Grand Canyon. There were, of course, plenty of adventures before and after. They lived in this van. They slept in the van, and in the woods, and wherever they could.
I can somewhat identify with the story. In the 70’s I took a trip to the Grand Canyon with two other guys and a girl. The four of us, and all our camping gear, in a Vega! Yeah. Fun. Well, I think they all enjoyed it. Me, not so much.
Anyway, this is that kind of story. Miller makes many observations of life and Christian spirituality, just probably not as many as in his two previous works.
“I’ve learned that I don’t really know much about anything. Life is not a story about me, but it is being told to me. I think that is the ‘why’ of this ancient faith I am caught up in: to enjoy God.” – Donald Miller -
So, I do recommend this book, but only after “Searching For God Knows What,” and certainly after “Blue Like Jazz.” If you get through those two, and still want more Donald Miller, then read “Through Painted Deserts.
I’m looking forward to his latest, “A Million Miles in a Thousand Years.” Hey, it’s even got Steve Taylor in it. That should up the sarcasm!
– dave
